Own Your Awkward with Andy Vargo (Part 3)

Ali Perry-Davies: 00:00:00

Hi, you're listening to Find Your Joy. If you're looking for ways to thrive rather than survive in a world that can seem rather chaotic, you're in the right place. We will be sharing stories of our own as well as those from guests who have found ways to bring hope, healing and freedom into places where trauma has impacted them. I'm Ali, author of the art of healing trauma, and I'm here to remind you that life is sweet. Now, let's dive in and find ways to create our joy

Ali Perry-Davies: 00:00:52

Hi, this is Ali with find your joy. And today we are back with episode three with the amazing, the spectacular, the generous, the kind, the really witty and the ever entertaining Andy Vargo and own your awkward Good morning, Andy, how are you,

Andy Vargo: 00:01:10

Ali? Good morning. I am excellent now that I get to be here with you. Thank you so much. It's always a pleasure chatting with you. I just love our conversations.

Ali Perry-Davies: 00:01:18

I do too. I'm just I'm just I'm thinking of this. I'm thinking, oh my gosh, this is like one of those people that you that when I'm when I'm talking to you. I feel like it's a friend that I haven't seen since high school and that we sit down and we're just right away, we take off like there's never been never a VT was missed, right? It was just like, oh my gosh, remember so and so in home school, or home or in home room, and then boom, we're off again. I'm just like, Oh, my goodness.

Andy Vargo: 00:01:45

I know. You said in one of the earlier episodes where you're like I just heard I forget that we haven't met yet. And it's just like, as you get in this space where you like, oh, yeah, we go way back like WaveNet. Well, this is, but it's just an instant connection. I love it. Yeah,

Ali Perry-Davies: 00:01:56

I love it. It is it's awesome. You know, I was thinking while we were chatting last time and I and I'm and oh my gosh, this is awesome. Because I'm mid sentence. And I forgot what I start with Welcome to brain injury world. But that's okay, because I'm just going to forge forward. And I'm going to hope that it's gonna come up to me, right? So we were talking a lot about different ways that how we get to places that we get and who we are and how we figure all of this out. And I was so you know, being that the show is called find your joy. I wanted to talk a little bit about what are the things that actually I get that you're owning your awkward, and I'm really getting a lot of joy from you in what you're talking about. And when I think oh, I know remember all thank you, I remembered what, what matters to me a lot is that when I'm talking with you, I'm well I feel like I'm getting free life skills. I'm actually getting things from you that would be coaching. And what occurs to me in that is that there's people that are listening, and some people it will be reaffirming to them, some people it's going to be new information to them. Some people are going to hopefully seek you out and and get your services at a deeper level, get your books, go to your go to your sites go and listen to your podcasts. But that's one of the things that really matters to me is that I can't really see. For me anyways, a lot of worth in doing a podcast if it's just gonna be me babbling and nobody's gonna get something from it, because me babbling is kind of that's that's my trademark, baby. But

Andy Vargo: 00:03:46

that's why I haven't done my shows too. Because I it's hard to see that like, what am I going to go on about necessarily,

Ali Perry-Davies: 00:03:53

right. And so I wanted to say, first of all, like, to me, You're very generous with your knowledge. And I appreciate that about you. And you're generous with your time. And you're generous with your chest, your graciousness, because it's so it's really awesome to me. So we're talking about owning your awkward and you know, this shall be in find your joy. How did you come to the place where you're actually finding your joy in the midst of all of this?

Andy Vargo: 00:04:24

You know, that's, that's a really good question, because I don't know if I know when I necessarily found it. I think I know when I realized that I had found it, but I don't know at what point along the way. You know, when you're climbing up a mountain and it looks so far away and you can't see the top and you never really at some point you turn around and look down and you see how far up you've come but you don't realize at what point you consider yourself very high up that mountain. Right. Oh, I like that. Yes, kind of how I feel like at some point I saw I saw that I was further along, or in a place where I found joy from what I was doing. But I don't know at what point on the trail, I started experiencing it. But I know it was a little ways back there. And, and for me, it was that, you know, when I made the changes in my life to start coaching and speaking, the real shift was it wasn't any more about what am I going to do for my livelihood? Or what am I going to do to make money? Or how can I make money from this? It was, how can I help people? How can I share my story in a way that helps someone else who is either maybe not in his darkest space, maybe in a darker space, but can hear what I've done or hear my perspective on something and just help it shift their their mindset a little bit. And as soon as I realized that, the I was that people were finding some of their joy, or the path towards it, at least from things that I was sharing. And I didn't necessarily even realize I was setting up to that I was just sharing my experiences from hopefully, you can not trip on the same rocks on the trail that I'm tripping on. Okay, there's a lot there, pick up your feet. And maybe you won't fall like I fell. But as soon as I realized how much I was getting that, that joy from helping people, then I leaned into it. And now it's like, that's what what I love doing. That's been hard for me in a way to start a business because I love helping people I don't even like I would do it, just do it. Like it's not about. And I sometimes have a hard time actually saying no, I do need to actually say, Well, this is what I would charge for this. Because I'm happy to just talk to everybody and help people. And, and so when I found that that was that was my thing. I leaned into it. And I guess I just realized that it doesn't matter what I do to make income, I could go work at a grocery store to pay my bills, and I would still be doing this thing. And that's what I knew that this is what I was meant to be doing.

Ali Perry-Davies: 00:07:06

Right? I love that, first of all, and everything that you're saying was just really resonating with me. I love it. It's a really good analogy that when you're climbing up a mountain, that you don't really know at what point that you started to get that view. It does come like it's it is a it is an all of a sudden thing, isn't it? Because the rest of it is just grunting and sweating. And yeah, I hate this mountain. Right? It's

Andy Vargo: 00:07:37

how far up? Do we have to go? Like, we're going all the way up? And did I pack like,

Ali Perry-Davies: 00:07:44

think I can see Vancouver from here? Like, do I really need to go all the way up that mountain? It's true. That's what it feels like. And it's so glorious when we actually do. I don't I haven't hiked in a very long time, it's making me think that it would be a wonderful thing to do, I'd have to really work my way up to it. But I've hiked a lot in my life in several other areas. And so I love that it's, you suddenly have that view and you didn't know you were gonna have that.

Andy Vargo: 00:08:14

And full disclaimer, I don't want to give a false impression that I actually have climbed a mountain. We're talking hiking hillsides. But I imagine the view is comparable. I do believe in being transparent so I don't want to I don't want to create a scandal.

Ali Perry-Davies: 00:08:34

Oh my gosh, I am thinking of my friend Donna right now who is an avid hiker and I see her posts. And that's just really her life. Like she just really doing that. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, that is amazing to me. There's that little what is it? There's a meme that says you know I'm over here rejoicing when I can get my foot in my underwear with people my same age. She's the same age as me. I went to school in her son's elementary school. She's like, it was a few of them. People that I have friends from way back in the day. And they're well and today you know, when they're still there doing that. I'm like, that's amazing. Like I it is great, but I did a hike when I was younger and I used to like it but thank you for your honesty because if I'd found out that you hadn't hiked up to the top of Shasta. It might have crushed me. I wouldn't be like, How can I believe anything? He says,

Andy Vargo: 00:09:37

like this guy. That story on the internet.

Ali Perry-Davies: 00:09:43

That's okay, you owned it when you said it and I and I and I really appreciated it. So it is something like that too, though, right? So in our moments where we were we're finding our joy how how Do you shift to make sure that you stay there? Or? Or do you? Or is it something that you explore? How do you how do you do that?

Andy Vargo: 00:10:08

That's, that's a really, I'm glad you brought that up. Because one of the things that I feel like we see, you know, in the last episode, we talked about that selfie, we take a capture, that's that snippet in time, it's a split second. And then we've we fixate on that. And that's, that's what we see. And that's what we see of others. And that's what we remember, of our of whatever moment in life we, we had. And one of the things that I had to really come to appreciate when I was in my worst, darkest places, I would, I'd have, you know, I might be crying like five times a day, because I'm going through a divorce and I can't handle it. Yes, what's life gonna be like, you know, financially ruin, the life will never be good. Again, it was my mindset in some ways. And I remember, I would have moments where I would be I get, you'd get to a point where you have joy for a week. And then you have that breakdown again, and, and you have to be careful about what you're telling yourself in that breakdown. Because my mindset initially was, here I am, I'm back at square one. But I wasn't really at square one, because I hadn't been having breakdowns, those seven days before that. I just had some great joyful days. And I had one bad moment or one bad day, now that breakdown might last for three days. And maybe the next time I'll make it for 10 days. So I actually had to learn and this is one of the things that I have as an exercise I do with people is to track the length of time between your dark moments. Because that length that that growth in the length of time is where that's where the growth, if you, you could then get to a point where you say, You know what, this was a messy day to day and I just don't feel good. But I just know I had two really good months, and I might have three months next time, or this is only going to last this long. Because we have this illusion that when we find our joy, that life is just Willy Wonka's chocolate factory forever. And SimpleFX was bringing us chocolate and swimming the chocolate river and there's no problems. And then other people because we don't see, like you said them arguing over which direction to go on vacation, we just see the joy. But that it's that there's more joy than not. And we learn to appreciate that, that we can focus on that time. And when the other times happen. We don't stifle those and then think, oh my gosh, I'm not going to deal with that. We just say, You know what, this doesn't feel good right now. But it won't be forever. And I know, back to Joy tomorrow morning, or next Thursday. As soon as you know, this house, guests leaves or whatever it is, you know, there will be a point in time where I'm gonna wake up happier, I'm gonna wake up in different and I can get back to Joy that day.

Ali Perry-Davies: 00:12:52

Yes. I think that that's a good thing too, for us all to remember, right? Because I think when people like you said, when people are seeing posts, like on Facebook or any social media, and they see a moment, a moment that's happy, or appears happy, we're smiling anyways, it you know, and it's and behind us is either you know, our family, or we're going for a walk or maybe we're on vacation somewhere fabulous at that moment. And that that little moment. It's it, that's all that it is, you know, it's funny when I was when I was first started writing my books. So when I was a co author and the books and that I wrote my own, I just got to a point where why the whole find your joy came to me was because a lot of the topics like my, my book is on, on finding healing through art, the art of healing from trauma. So there's trauma, right? And then there's ways to find healing. And for me, you know, I used art and, and in that being writing and music and painting and whatever photography to take those happy such there's all of that through it. And but there was the trauma and that's why I wanted to go for the find your joy was about not to assume that some people are leading more joyful lives than others. Right? Yes, it's how do we find our way out of the jungle. The vines that wrap around us are really scary, and they're hard and they're painful, but we make it there and so like you said waking up in the morning, and even though it doesn't feel very joyful. For me joyful is an intention. It's It's It's something to aim for. It's it's capturing those moments, man if I have to take a stupid little selfie to remember who Yeah, there are times that are quite good. I have happy hair days. I have things that haven't you know, sometimes that can be good You know, when the memories come up in Facebook, and sometimes I'm, well, it can work both ways, right? Sometimes I have a memory of, you know, I posted I remember when my brother died and I did a post, because I didn't know how to tell all these people that knew him that he had passed. And when those when that comes up the first couple of years after, and that memory because you know, a lot of people commented, so that's the thing that comes up. I think that's how their algorithms work. Those were hard. Those were it was just like, it's not that I'd forgotten that he had died. It was just, I remember that moment. But then other times, there's something that comes up. And it brings back something really joyful. And it could have been in the middle of a really hard day when anxiety was having its way with me or, or you know, Dave didn't realize how awesome I was in the moment and how right I always say, Well, why didn't I think of that earlier? Honey? You're right. You're always right. Sometimes he falls short on that. I just wanted to he does not, you know, he seems very intelligent, right up until the time that he misses out on telling me how awesome I am. Right? He's really trying hard, though.

Andy Vargo: 00:16:22

That's really like, I know that you just forgot to mention how awesome I am before you said whatever you were about to say. I'm gonna give you that.

Ali Perry-Davies: 00:16:34

Okay, I have to tell the story. It's on another podcast that I did. But it doesn't even matter. I'm telling you this right now. So our grant, so we have two grandkids, Hannah and caches, and they're both amazing. So when Hannah's at now, but when she was three or four, I'm gonna say One day, she runs up the driveway and up the sidewalk the whole way. Nana Nana, Nana, she gets to me and she says, Nana, I have some really bad news. It's so sad. And I said what honey, and she said Elvis died. And he was a really good singer. And it was so you know, she thought she was giving me new information. And I thought that was going to be it for the story. But it wasn't because Hannah went on to say. And you know, what's really sad is that he never even got to meet me. And I'm awesome.

Andy Vargo: 00:17:25

Oh my god, that is beautiful.

Ali Perry-Davies: 00:17:27

Is that the best? Yeah. And I just I just remember thinking, Oh, Hannah. I hope all the days of your life. You know this?

Andy Vargo: 00:17:35

Yeah. Because like, I never got to meet him. Yes. She's awesome. I love that.

Ali Perry-Davies: 00:17:43

I know it was it was just so amazing to me. Because you know, here you know so many of us back to the Jim Carrey. We're waiting that we can meet that celebrity and go, we get that little clip that little one moment thing. But she was she saw it completely differently. And I just thought, oh my gosh, first of all, I of course called my son and my daughter in law. You guys rock. By the way you guys rock because what Hannah just said to me, yeah, well done. Well done. Right. So it's so much like that. And if only we could all you know, I guess my next My next way to look at this is how do we own our awesome and I think we talked about that a few episodes ago is owning our awesome right if you said it in a roundabout little way that that Tom? How do we learn to own our awesome, I that's not something I was really thinking of so much before but but maybe we can explore that a bit?

Andy Vargo: 00:18:38

Well, I think that it's all whether it's finding your joy or owning your awkward or owning your awesome, I think that part of it is the acceptance that that it's got multilayers right, that is not just so we can be an awesome person, it doesn't mean that we never have a fault or that we never fall short on using our talents or being our best person that sometimes we forget to tell our wife that she is the most awesome and always right person. It doesn't mean days still not an awesome guy, right? It's like his best day. But but that that is part of the package. And that's kind of like when we look at someone who's really good at any one particular thing. Like, like we talked about in a previous show about you know, like the accountant has to be really good at being an accountant well, right for them to own that awesomeness of being an accountant that means that we they have to also know well I'm not probably partying on a Friday night because that's not my scene or you know, maybe this for some accounts but but the personality that all of the things that the that you could see as a flaw to your own personality are actually what create the strength that you're leading with. Yes. And so sure, those are things that are going to hold you back from being that person's awesome, but that's what creates your awesome

Ali Perry-Davies: 00:19:57

yeah, I love that. And like You said, you know, I guess we're all a little bit awesome in some areas, and not so much in others. You know, I see I see people sometimes and they seem to be, here we go. Some people seem to be quite comfortable with who they are, and have been like, for a long time. I don't know if they're in denial, or that's just who they are. But I know people who have I've known them since high school, and I've never, you know, maybe they were just not close enough that I don't know their awkwardness or their fears. I mean, there's that of course, we never know what's going on inside for someone else. But I see that some people tend to be a little bit better at figuring out how awesome they are at earlier ages. Well, no. raised with it. I don't know.

Andy Vargo: 00:20:51

I think there can be that. But I also think that some people lead with the awesomeness but hide their insecurities. And other people lead with the insecurities and hide their awesomeness. So think about that one for me, because I

Ali Perry-Davies: 00:21:13

just I taught me in my tracks,

Andy Vargo: 00:21:16

but it's true. Like how many times you see people where they're puffing up the awesomeness and all the while, it's almost overinflated, because they're actually trying to hide what they're insecure about. And then, you know, a lot of us were I was on that side was like, Oh, I don't really see that awesome. So here's, here's the things I'm not good at and everyone else going, but you know, you're you can do this, this and this. Oh, my God. No, no.

Ali Perry-Davies: 00:21:46

I think I was more in the same camp that you're describing. I think that I came more naturally with the wonder if that's just an is that the is that the mind of the artist? I don't really know. Maybe it's just, I don't maybe a lot of people are like that. I'm not really sure. And maybe we kind of swing and sway between those words. Right. And this is just one thing.

Andy Vargo: 00:22:11

That's a good point. Because I think there are certain times and certain talents where I probably lead with the awesomeness and then I step into a different room of people and all sudden the insecurity leads. Right?

Ali Perry-Davies: 00:22:23

Right. That's that is a good point. And insecurities have a lot to do with how we get sidetracked, distracted. Forget about the awesomeness. And sometimes of course, insecurities. And arrogance, or or our or overconfidence can be the same beast with a different face. True. Yeah. Right. Sometimes if we're doing that, so that's interesting. So so a lot of that can be things that distract us because what I've, I've just been really, I guess it's something that I'm working out in my own life right now is the distractions. Yeah, because it seems to be coming up in every episode. So it's figuring that out. And sometimes our own insecurities can be a distraction. Sometimes a new project can be a distraction, sometimes, whatever it is, figuring that out is is an interesting journey.

Andy Vargo: 00:23:21

And one thing that I'm still learning to do, and still kind of grappling with is I've always valued being humble. And I really tried to be a very humble person. But I have found that there are times where I hide my lack of competence or my insecurities behind the guise of being humble. Where, right? Like, I won't own a skill, because I want to be humble about it. But it's really an insecurity about it, where it's okay to take a compliment when someone says, Hey, you're really good in this area. And, and I found that I would always back off of that compliment, thinking that I was doing the right thing by being humble. But in reality, it was my own lack of believing in myself. So be very careful with what words we are using with ourselves. Because the more we're using those words, that's a story. We're constantly telling ourselves. And you hear that story and you say it enough you believe it.

Ali Perry-Davies: 00:24:17

Yeah, and I think yes, it's true. I like that. And the word humble. And humility is good, too. Because, because when I think of it, what I'm learning more and more, is it true humility is actually knowing my strengths and my weaknesses. That's, that's where I'm, that's where we're that word is what it really is about, right? And so if I am, if I'm being falsely humble, or or self deprecating or something like that, trying to know I don't want to just own what I'm, it's a hard one. It's hard to know the balance of that, right. It's hard to know the balance of I actually know what I'm talking about here, right? Like, I guess this is this is an area, I'm rather confident in this area, I know what I'm talking about. And if someone, it's not that I can't learn more, or that I'm not open to learning more, but there are certain areas that I have spent decades in in that industry or that, or that, that line of work or something like that. And if someone was talking to me about something, and I know, I will have to say, well, things must have really changed policies must have changed since I was there. Because this is, this is what I know to be true when I worked in that area for, you know, 20 years or did something like that. So, so it's interesting. So I can so here's something. So as a person who was a sales manager, I was in, in my in a past life, too. I could feel I would feel, here's something I'm just coming up with this. So I would feel pretty confident to say if someone said something that would be opposite that I would know to be true. As a sales trainer, I would know that that would not be, that would not be a way that I would go about that, at least at minimum, I would say I wouldn't think that we would get good fruit out of that person. If he went down that road, right? I would say that with you know, a lot of the numbers game and in sales, were you really a lot of pressure. And you're going to do that used to be the way years ago, pressure sales was the way we know now that that doesn't really work. So well. We're going to come that that beast at another from another angle. So I say that. So hold that for a minute to say this. Now when it's something different, right? That around owning your awkward finding your joy, writing books, writing songs, performing, doing things like that, suddenly this thing that I've done all these years? I'm because it's I think it's because it's something that we created. And so there's now we're back to who's holding the baby. Right? Or, or how do we present this baby? It seems almost, I don't know, is it wrong to say sacrilegious, it's or wrong somehow that I would just say, look at this baby, holy crap, this is a cute baby. Best baby I've ever seen no babies as smart as my baby. Babies as cute as my baby. You know, actually, when it's a baby, you might say that, but when it when it's something that we've created, it becomes a little bit more difficult sometimes to do that. And maybe that's the part that we need to learn. As creatives and we're all everybody's creative about something. Maybe that's the part that needs to shift for me anyways,

Andy Vargo: 00:28:00

definitely. And you know, how it's, you know, when you're selling a product back to the sales thing, when you believe in the product, it's easy to sell. Right? I think a lot of times, it's easier for us to sell other people's products because we believe in that person. And when we go to sell our own product, it's hard because we can see what we have as a dream for this thing we created. And in our in our own process, we may know all the things that it isn't yet that we want it to be because we can see that it could be this great. But right now it's only here. So that holds us back I think sometimes from believing and how great it really is. Because it can still be a very amazing thing. Even though we know it can be better. It may it undermines that. So that when we're presenting to the world, it's harder to sell because we're like, Oh, I got this thing I did. Yes. It's my first rendition but I want you to buy versus saying, You know what, I've got this thing it can help a lot of people and I, I I need to know who you think this could help and I somebody else. But it's hard to get in that mindset when it is yourself.

Ali Perry-Davies: 00:29:07

Yeah, it is it is somehow is you know, I so. So here's, here's the thing, it took me two years to I'm going to tell you this story took me two years to write my book. Took me two years because of my brain injury. It's very hard for me to read. So I could write just like I'm talking, right but just imagine for a moment just look straight forward and everything that's behind you. It's very well Okay, so you've got a background there that's a little bit easier. But if you were driving down the road, for instance, without looking in your rear view mirror, what's behind you? I don't really know right? So that's kind of life with my brain. Is everything that in front of me. I mean, nothing's changing. I'm who I am. What behind what's behind me? I don't know because I can't remember back there. Right. So when I would write If I would, I would be writing away and then to try to do rewrites or to do any editing on my own, or when I would send things off to the editor. Like, I had days and days of vertigo and migraines. And because it was just really hard. So it took me two years to do that. And there I, you know, less than half of what I wrote is in the book, because I just at the end of it, I just knew I needed to finish the book. And I changed my I shifted a bit, I wanted it to be much more focused, that there had to be some joy in there, because there's some hard stuff, right? I don't talk about the actual traumas, but I do mention them. And then I talk about working through triggers, and blah, blah, blah, right. So okay, so we put that away. Now then, right after I wrote my book, there has just been thing after it was great. It went to number one bestseller in seven categories on Amazon. And it was like, you know, people were liking it, I was getting great feedback. And, oh, isn't that all exciting. And then life, I was like, somebody threw a grenade into my life. And we just had a lot of really hard things happen in our family. So I kind of forgot about my book, I was getting invited to do talks, I was all these things. I couldn't function. I all of a sudden started having anxiety again, I was like, it was really hard. Now I say that to say this, a friend of mine came over, I hadn't seen him in a really long time. And he's a person who mentored me for many years. I mentioned him in the book, when I'm talking about people who have had a huge impact on my life. He's a college professor. He's written many books, he's read many books. He's like, somebody I respect and admire a lot. Anyways, he was like, you wrote a book, oh, my gosh, I didn't even know. And you know, it's so I gave him my book. And he wrote me, and he's not a guy who blows smoke at, you know what I mean? He's, he's, he's going to say exactly what it was. And he only had good things to tell me. And and I don't remember exactly how it ended what he said. But he said, to me, I hope this book finds its ways, its way to the hands of many people. Because it's really going to change people's lives. It's going to it's going to be really good for them. And then it was since I read that letter, and I don't even remember if I've responded to him, because I know I started to but now I can't remember, I have to go check. But I, it, it reminded me so I went and read my book. Of course, it took a long time, because I don't read well anymore. Or it's hard for me to and I was like, Oh, my books god. Oh my god, I love that. It's really good. I love this book. This is a good book. And so, you know, now I know I'm going to start to re explore doing something with my book, it's going to be more than a coaster, right? And I'm going to buy I'm going to go online and I'm going to get at least two of your books, I want to own your awkward and I also want the one that you spoke of. That sounded more like a journal or book or something like that. It gets better if life gets Okay, so I'm going to I'm going to get those because I think that they'll be really helpful for me. And I and I know that they will be helpful to to listeners, and I want to be able to fully engage and know it now it's going to take me some time to read it. Because we got this whole brain thing going on. But but I'm going to and I have you gone back and read any of your books recently,

Andy Vargo: 00:33:58

you know, I had a an experience. A friend of mine who does some videos and stuff invited me to be on their their video. And they read a snippet from my book. And I was just like, I wrote that down. did make me go because I have had times, especially with the change book, where I've had to, you know, I'm always constantly like having to go okay, I need to retake my own medicine. There were times I was like, Oh, I gotta go back and do this exercise. Yes, one that I do a lot is budgeting. In the in the in the book about change. There's a section about budgeting for the change that you're gonna face. Oh, but the budget I talked about, it's not just financial, it's time. It's finances, time and energy. So those are your three most valuable valuable assets. So very like for me a lot of times it's I get all this stuff going on. I commit to all these things and then pretty soon it's like, why am I not getting my laundry done and my dishes done and like I have over I have Use, I've overused my time budget, I need to sit down and go back and write out how much time I'm going to divvy out to each thing I'm committed to and figure out if I need to give something up or cut something back. Because it's, I'm not always living realistically within my budget. And I'm talking about time. So I've had to go back and do some of that. But you're right, there is that moment where you're like, Oh, this is a good thing. And and I don't know if this has been the case for you. But for myself, when I finish a book, I promote it the first while when it first goes, and then I feel like it's last year's project. Yes. And I don't think like, I'm like, I feel like it's weird to go promote this thing and say, Hey, I have this book. Did you get it yet? Because I've been saying that for two years. So I, why would I keep saying that. But if someone walks into a bookstore, and they see this book, that's still the first time they've seen it, and it's all new to them. So exactly. That's the mindset I need to keep. And before you told that story, one of the things that I was thinking about, and it just reinforced it with the story, you told us that we need to be advocates for ourselves the way we would be for our very best friend. Yes. And be able to say, You know what, I believe in you and your book and change the words to I believe in me and my book and my product, whatever it is, whatever it is you're doing, that can make it so that you actually can step into that room and say, Hey, I've got a good product here. It's helped a lot of people and it's gonna help even more. And I you know, I hope you'll buy it.

Ali Perry-Davies: 00:36:27

Yes, I ha, it's true. It's true. And and thank you for that reminder, the way that you just said that, to me, it's like, okay, well, I expect to later today to see both of our books up on her Facebook pages, and I will share yours. Yeah, it's, it's remembering, we need to remember because I didn't just, you know, however long it takes to write the book, you know, mine might have taken longer, but not really, I think all of any book that we write, I'm working on kids books now. But any book that we write, we're carrying those things around for years, it's not, however long it takes to put pen to paper. Those books, they're carried around all that is brewing and brewing inside us before it spills out. And then when you mentioned

Andy Vargo: 00:37:16

that, I when I remember publishing my book and hemming and hawing of do I do 13 9914 I like, like getting caught up in this over $1 difference in what price to put on a book. And even thinking like, someone's gonna see the value when it's, you know, certain thickness or whatever, I don't have a PhD behind my name or whatever. And, and finally, one, one person said to me, you know, they're not paying for the number of pages, they're paying for all of the time that you have put into that book. And if you think that's worth, that's not worth $15, then, then you're not seeing your worth.

Ali Perry-Davies: 00:37:57

Exactly. And $15 is, is ridiculously cheap for a book, by the way. But anyway, he sets, that's, that's, of course, once it goes through Amazon, it's going to be 49. But anyway, sorry, nothing against Amazon, it's just that there's all the, it's all their fees, and then there's the wood, anything that comes off of it. So I so. So what I'm going to say is if so if they if if we get directly through you, then that's a better way, I'm going to tell I'm going to talk about that a little bit with people. So God bless Amazon and everybody who who carries our books. And that there, it's awesome. And it's how people find out about us and why people contact us and, and who wouldn't otherwise know us. Once we can find our way to someone's website, or to their social media sites. And the person can either send it out themselves, or however it works. One of the things that that's kind of that's nice is that the buyer will probably pay less the purchaser, and the writer will probably make more.

Andy Vargo: 00:39:03

Yeah, and one thing that that I love, just on a side note is whenever someone buys a book directly from me, I feel a little more connection to that person because I know, but I know that this book went to somebody on the other side of the state or this went to somebody, you know, two states away or in a different country or a different town, whatever. It's like, you have their name, you know, and I started wondering, I started filling in little stories in my head like well, I wonder I wonder how they found out I wonder why they got Yes, and it just as exciting journey that I go on where it's like this is kind of fun. And it just takes it to another nother level because when it sells online, I see a number that clicked that a book was sold and I i have no idea where I have

Ali Perry-Davies: 00:39:48

no idea who it went to or if it love it if somebody

Andy Vargo: 00:39:52

sorry, it could have been a friend or a stranger. I have no idea.

Ali Perry-Davies: 00:39:55

Exactly. And I would really like to know it If it didn't, if it impacted them at all, how was it like it was? It's so amazing. I when I wrote the book, I remember saying, if even one person tells me they were impacted, that will be amazing. Well, now of course, you get to hear that over and over. And and it's, it's it's validating not just as a writer, but it's like, okay, yeah, like I put myself out there. And there was some value to it. Not not value just of dollars, but value that a person had actually impacted them. I've had people I had, I had a, you know, someone send me an email, and say, I was really struggling with anxiety. And I went through some of the things that I just have these little suggestions, you know, to get through anxiety. I did some of the stuff that was in your book. And it was really, it helped me to ground myself. I was like, well, that's really awesome. And then someone else said to me, I hadn't written a poem in years, I didn't think I was ever going to write poetry. Now. I'm writing poetry all the time. I love

Andy Vargo: 00:41:06

that. Oh, my gosh, one of the things that I think sometimes when we look at supporting our friends and their businesses and stuff, too, and this applies to books or artwork, or whatever, yeah, we look at products and think, well, will I need that? Can I use it or I'll buy it like, you know, there's perfectly wonderful reasons to buy things even if you don't need them. And one of the things that I started doing is I have a basket here at my house I'm pointing to because it's over, they're like,

Ali Perry-Davies: 00:41:33

oh, I can see it.

Andy Vargo: 00:41:36

But whenever I buy gifts, like if I see something that might be a good gift for my kids later, I just buy it, when I see it. And I put in there and I've started when I go to like local pop up markets or farmers markets, try and think about what can I buy that I can put in that basket that I can give to a friend later. So whether you buy like one of the things my my niece wrote an adult coloring book, like with all the squiggly lines and stuff where you colored in, and she and I went on, I bought like three or four copies, because I want to have on hand because I forget about it in the moment. But if I have them. Now, when I go visit a friend and they have maybe a teenage kid, I'm like, Hey, here's this thing. Or even just, if you're thinking of a friend, and you want something that's like, Okay, I'm gonna give this to them. But when you go look it, you're giving two people a gift in that moment, because you're supporting a friend or a local person where, you know, it's like, you know, I could buy a couple copies of your book. And when I know people who are struggling with anxiety, it's like, here, my friend wrote this book, take this course, you know, whatever. And, and I don't know where the gift is gonna go. But you're giving that creator the gift of the purchase. And that feels really good, obviously. And like you said, not even because of the money because it's people are seeing value. And that yes, I remind myself all the time, like, you know, I only need I just need people to see a little value in what I'm putting out there and to in order for things to be successful.

Ali Perry-Davies: 00:43:01

Exactly. Well, that you know what, I love that that's it. I love that you're saying that. So my brother I've bought you know, I don't I go online because he'll try to give them to me for free. I go online and buy CDs, and then give them as gifts. My cousin, I go online, I buy his CDs, I do that I have a friend, I went and I bought all bunch of her CDs, a friend who has written books, I go and I buy them as I can afford to write because I know they but you know, I never want a deal on it. No, I just I What is how much does it cost? Okay, and then I will probably go online because I don't want them to know necessarily it was for me. And then I have like your it's just I love that you're saying that. It's like you're living in my brain. And then I just I then I give those gifts out because at Christmas you know what I would rather give you a CD from someone I know and love and a book and a home made Jara pickles or something. And, and that's that's me because that's those are the things that matter to me. And I would love to support local artists and just artists in general.

Andy Vargo: 00:44:08

I think it's it's I'm glad you called out that you go online and buy them because I found there are two types of friends the friends who are like, I want to support you so can you give me your book? Or I want to support you so what kind of deal can I get on your service whatever it is, it's like senseless I should get this for free or discounted. And then there are friends that are since we're friends I want to pay full price do not give me a discount because and and people don't realize sometimes what they're doing that there are those two types of people and and if you're trying to support a small business, their livelihood is on every sale and that artists and so every time they're giving something away, they're not contributing to their livelihood based on that

Ali Perry-Davies: 00:44:52

and even more so it costs them money to make a lot of money to make these things right. So it's you know, I think that the the A former the person when they and I can only speak for myself personally, I used to feel like it was validating our relationship for someone to give me something they had made. I don't think I thought that at the time, but now I'm looking back. And I'm thinking, I think that's what I was thinking because I don't it maybe it was because I was broke. I don't know, I but I think mostly, I was thinking it was some kind of a connection. And now it's very different now. It's like, no, no, no, no, I want to, I want to pay for that. And in fact, a few times people have said, I want to pay for this. And I've given them something. And I realize after. Okay, I get I get what they were trying to do. Oh, I get it, I get what you're trying to do right there. And so it's kind of like that. Well, man we are. It just goes by so quickly with you. I just it just blew my mind

Andy Vargo: 00:46:00

has been amazing. I've got so I can't wait to go rewatch and listen to this, because there's so many nuggets that have popped up throughout the conversation that I I almost wish I was taking notes, but that would have distracted.

Ali Perry-Davies: 00:46:11

Exactly. I know it's the same with me. And it's just been like a freefall. And it's just been awesome. I've just loved it so much. So, Andy, I really need to before we go, we'll have it in the notes for the episode. But tell people where to get ahold of you and and what kinds of things that you can offer them.

Andy Vargo: 00:46:32

Perfect. So thank you so much for asking, and for this time, it's been a blessing. So my website is awkward career.com That's got links to all my social media. You can find me all over the internet as Andy Vargo onyour awkward, or awkward careers my handle on most social media pages. And I'm just always happy to connect I've got books, life coaching, I do workshops and motivational speaking I'm my main thing is all about change adversity and authenticity and whether that's business leadership or individuals we tie that all together so

Ali Perry-Davies: 00:47:07

amazing. Well thank you thank you thank you I just I I don't even want this to end because I just don't want it to end but it's not the end it's nearly the merely the beginning of something else. So thank you very much. Yeah, that's all right till next time. Thank you so much. And this is Ali with find your joy. Thanks so much for tuning in and do make sure you go and check out Dr go out because he's a whole lot of awesomeness.